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Re: Making FriendsWed, 17 Sep 2014 15:00:07 +0000Dear Kassiopeia,
Your post struck a cord with me, and I agree that it seems difficult to make new friends as an adult. As I have become more comfortable with my own identity, I long to connect with people who appreciate my character traits and personality including my introversion. Yet, it can be difficult to get to know someone because beginning conversations can be superficial and not all that informative about how a person really is. My best friends have always been books, I guess because they are consistently encouraging and thought provoking. "Quiet" is one of my favorites. I'm re-reading it now and listening on audiobook. I don't really understand how forums and postings work, but I hope this will be an on-going conversation. Best regards, Jaehttp://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=419.0#postid-1176&guid=1176
Making FriendsSat, 13 Sep 2014 13:55:52 +0000I am new here.
I am an introvert who has had difficulty making friends, but not because I haven't tried. I definitely have gone out of my way to meet and talk with people, and get to know them, and they seem to drift away back to their own clique. I feel like I'm always on the begging end of things, trying to get them to hang out with me. Has anyone else had this issue? I am wondering what it is about me, I am somewhat quiet but not so quiet that I don't want to socialize and talk to others. Making friends has been such a huge effort for me that at times I've had to give up and focus on my life/work/family/hobbies instead. I do want friends but its not like I can spend 24 hours a day trying to make them. I also struggled with dating and opposite sex relationships for years and didn't marry until I was in my late 30s.http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=418.0#postid-1175&guid=1175
Re: How to reconnect a relationshipTue, 09 Sep 2014 22:49:10 +0000A question:
How much had either of you dated before meeting each other?http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=418.0#postid-1174&guid=1174
How to reconnect a relationshipTue, 09 Sep 2014 13:09:25 +0000I am an extroverted newbie to the forum and am in hope someone may be able to give me some invaluable insight on mending a relationship with a recent introverted ex.
Long story short, we've had an incredible friendship for 3yrs. I was considered her best friend and we were in constant communication with one another in matters casual and extremely intimate. It was mostly texting at all hours of the day and email/chat exchanges while at work. There wasn’t an hour that went by without some type of correspondence. This started to build a heavy attraction for one another that we tried to act on a few times, but the timing with having others in our lives never allowed it to work out. Until 7 months ago.
We finally had the chance after years of watching her keep trying to fix a relationship that kept breaking apart. She waited a few months before we started to hang out together. Despite both of us saying we’d keep it slow, it started out very fast since our chemistry was always amazing. There was so much lost time and pent up feelings – serious talks about marriage, a family, etc were not uncommon for us to have. We spent several nights a week together and most all of every weekend. Slowly over the months, I started to detect a lot of need for ‘me time’ on her behalf. Naturally, I took this the wrong way and kept trying to make all sorts of different plans and trips. I became very confused why they weren’t being met with a greater excitement or why there would be periods of time post weekend where she would shut down. We would talk about so many deep future plans and then suddenly it was like those plans were uncertain.
Just a few weeks ago, we had texted all day about what we were doing this weekend and she said she had packed a bag with plans to be at my house around 6. A typical weekend so it seemed. She arrived on time and immediately sat on my bed stating she couldn’t do this any longer, a feeling was missing within her, she was overloaded, and needed time to work on herself. She also had been facing depression spells along with anxiety about being unorganized, tired, and some recent weight gain. She always joked (not a joke now) that it was a product of all the time we spent together. I was floored about the sudden out of the blue break up, but tried to remain calm. I gave her space and didn’t go into chase/plead or anger mode.
Since then, I have been consulting with a close friend who is a girl that shares a lot of the personality traits my girlfriend did. She always had the best insight. This time, she suggested that my gf was an introverted person. This was the first time I even considered this, but after a conversation with my friend and constant reading – it matched up perfectly. It all made sense. The times she would need to be social with me (weddings, parties, etc) were extremely draining to her and she was just putting the effort forth to make me happy. It was really when we stayed home when she was the most happy watching a movie with me and talking. I was draining her without knowing it and causing self-neglect. There were countless other instances where I look back that went against an introverted person’s wish list.
I love her and know she loves me. We are resisting a lot of communication with one another right now, but I have sent a letter expressing my understanding. I was careful not to say the word ‘introvert’ as I am not sure if she has self-assessed herself as one and I don’t want her to accidentally get offended. I see the gift of being how she is and accept it 100%. It’s nothing that needs to be changed. I just need to be sensitive to it and make the adjustments needed to my extroverted behavior. I WANT TO DO THIS as I look back to see the sacrifices she tried to make for me. I am actually happy to do it as I can see those introverted traits as something to appreciate and even envied.
So, to my question – now that I have sent a letter basically explaining my understanding and what I know I can do to help not be so overwhelming, what else can I do to help bring a chance to see if this can be reconciled? Neither of us have moved on to anyone else and we send little ‘hellos’ to say we are thinking about each other in our own way every few days. Is understanding and a resolve to change enough to warrant a second chance from an introverted personality?
Re: On creation in public placesMon, 08 Sep 2014 20:40:49 +0000<blockquote><strong>Quote from Science Dogood on Jun 18, 2013, 11:34am</strong>
In Susan's book, she talks about how she created a quiet home office to write her book--and then was unable to write a single word. Instead, she was far more productive in public, with her laptop, in a crowded cafe. Similarly, I have often been incredibly productive on subway trains or in airports. If introverts just need to be left alone, how can this be?<blockquote>
Susan is a mommy with children at home. No one mentioned that or considered it. It has not been given any consideration as a possible factor of her not being able or willing to write at home.
Do you think that factor may be relevant?
Susan attributes her productivity to "the presence of other people helped my mind make associative leaps." After thinking (alone) about this, I would like to offer an alternative reason.
The most potent distractions are social distractions. So how is it that public places often produce the highest-quality private thought? If you have ever watched people behave on a subway train, most of them seem to be working very hard to block out the multitude of social distractions. Indeed, in these social but anonymous environments there is almost a <em>peer pressure to NOT be social</em>. Eye contact is avoided, and everybody around you tries to look immersed in whatever they are doing. The surprising irony is that anonymous social places drive us to go inside our heads! Perhaps this is especially true for introverts, who have spent their lives trying to avoid or escape social interactions. Daydreaming, a forte' of introverts, is a kind of social armor--a refuge from the noise around us.</blockquote>
Restricting (or limiting) ones' environment, be it through self-discipline, lack of materials or whatever, can arouse and increase creativity. If an artist restricts his available medium to a lesser set of available materials, his work and creativity will be more focused. But this has NOTHING to do with introversion.
Contrast the crowded cafe with the quiet office, which is the so-called "perfect place to write." Here, the noise has been turned way down. Ostensibly, this should increase the chance of receiving a quality creative signal. But just as often, the extreme quiet makes it easier for distractions to creep in. In these environments, the dust ball under the couch suddenly becomes a distraction and must be tended to. By suppressing the noise, we may allow new distractive signals to gain the upper hand. </blockquote>
Some introverts <em>can</em> produce quality work in silence and solitude. Again, there are other factors involved. <em>This has NOTHING to do with introversion.</em>
<blockquote>Even introverts who go each day to a place of solitude will go to extremes to make that place spartan. I propose that this is to keep the noise of distraction below the quiet threshold. I recently watched a great biographical profile of Woody Allen, who is an unusually productive and creative person. Allen still writes all of his works on a manual typewriter. Why would he prefer that to a computer?</blockquote>
It might be because he is old, and set in his ways of working. There might be many reasons other that those that you assume to be the cause.
Unlike the computer, the typewriter offers few opportunities for distraction. You can't check email or surf the internet. The only thing you can do is produce new ideas in your head and put them down on paper, one peck at a time.</blockquote>
If you have a computer that has just a word processing program and is not connected to the internet, there is no other distraction. Old computers are cheap and readily available. But apparently you are young - younger than Woody and younger than me, and didn't consider utilizing a computer that is not internet connected. I personally like word processing because unlike using a typewriter, I can make revisions quickly and easily. I wrote a book that way when computers first were available and not on line. Having self-discipline allows me to concentrate on writing exclusively and to check my email later - only when I am though with my writing session.
<blockquote>People who create within spartan environments have figured out ways to allow the signals from their own brains to trickle out and rise above outside noises. They accomplish this by going to extremes to suppress noise from gaining access to their working environments. People such as myself (and Susan Cain) have adopted an alternative strategy to suppress the distractions, and it is ironic: go to a public place where there is peer pressure all around you to ignore the social noise, and you may find yourself escaping inside your head.</blockquote>
That's not "ironic" - it's merely saying that some can be creative in an environment with distractions (or "noise"), and some cannot. Either way, this is a separate issue <em>that has NOTHING to do with introversion.</em></blockquote></blockquote>http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=209.0#postid-1172&guid=1172
Re: Introvert in HR dept.Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:03:40 +0000Let me tell you a story. I spent 15 years as introvert working in HR departments, about half as a trainer and half as an HR manager. Not a likely career for an introvert, but it worked. I then started my own consulting business.
In my last company job as a plant HR manager, my extrovert boss eventually decided he wanted a more extroverted HR manager. There was nothing wrong with what I was doing or how the function operated, he simply had a stereotypical view of HR managers being extroverts. So he found one. I moved up to a job at corporate and everyone was happy. Right? Not exactly.
You see, the plant was a very innovative socio-technical team design that used work teams to do a lot of decision making. The objective is to grow the teams over time and give them increased autonomy. Sometimes managers hold that back. In fact, managers are the biggest obstacle. Guess who was the biggest obstacle to the plant's evolution? Yep, the plant manager himself. I knew that, but I also had the good sense to know that plant managers are effectively captains of the ship whether you agree with them or not. I pushed the guy on issues, but never broke ranks with him. Undermining the boss is not a career enhancing move.
Enter the new HR manager. He had tons of good experience with work teams and our type of plant. No problems there. He was also smart enough to diagnose the major problem with the plant's evolution. As an ex plant manager himself, he knew the answer - he needed to be plant manager. He went to the top HR VP and told him what the problem at the plant really was. In six weeks he was gone. So much for extroverts.
So, don't worry too much. You would be surprised how many introverts are in HR. Many of them are in the analytical sides like comp and benefits, but definitely not in recruiting. The caveat I would have for you has less to do with introversion and more to do with your motivation to be in HR. People who get into HR because "I want to work with / help people" are in for a huge disappointment. It's not social work. It's running a business function that deals with people. You get to see the best and also the worst in humans from an HR role. If you want to help people in a charitable sort of way, go to work for a volunteer organization that feeds people or helps the homeless or maybe become a true social worker.
If I have mischaracterized your motivation, I apologize, but you may be happier in another role, or perhaps in a different group within HR. If you stay in HR, you'll always face the fact that most of the organization thinks you should be an extravert even though introverts can do the job too - and often better.
Best of luck.http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=261.0#postid-1171&guid=1171
Re: On creation in public placesMon, 08 Sep 2014 11:50:43 +0000Right on the money. I have done a lot of work on planes and in airports when I traveled. The word that comes to mind is "concentration." If you have it, the place you are in doesn't matter all that much. Once you are in the zone, you can do stuff. Good post. Read much Ben Franklin?http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=417.0#postid-1170&guid=1170
Obama \"Outed\"Mon, 08 Sep 2014 11:44:10 +0000Ever wonder why you don't like <strong>President</strong> Obama, but you do like <strong>Candidate</strong> Obama? Susan has your answer.
<strong>Candidate</strong> Obama looks like an extrovert and acts like one. He has the social flexibility to take on extrovert characteristics to reach a goal. When he gets into office, the real introvert Obama takes over to run things. This is why you see the dispassionate, cool, president giving interviews where the only emotions are verbalized as words and not seen as vocals and non verbals. He can perform for an audience, but it is not his core personality. Even though it looks like duck and quacks like a duck, it's really a turkey in disguise.
It's like buying something in the store that comes in a large shiny package with a great picture (or think of the burger photo in a fast food place). When you get the actual product, it is not what it appeared to be and you are disappointed. That's why you like Obama and don't like Obama.
Before you go off the rails about someone hating Obama, you should know I voted for the guy. This is not a criticism of his governing, but an observation of his perception by the public. In general, politicians are duplicitous in lots of ways so Obama has lots of company. Lots of introverts stretch their styles to get what they want and there is no harm in it. It's just not so obvious for us as it is for a president.
When you look back on past presidential elections you'll see that the extrovert among the two finalists almost always wins. It's why Clinton won and why Gore lost. Forget all the rhetoric, we like extroverts for presidents -- maybe because E's are the majority.
BTW, the book is very good, but the pop up ad at the bottom of the screen on the web site is a huge annoyance. Would someone quietly remove it, please?http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=169.0#postid-1169&guid=1169
Re: Being picked on at work because I'm quietSun, 07 Sep 2014 21:37:56 +0000<blockquote><strong>Quote from Anastasia on Sep 2, 2014, 7:17am</strong>
Being bullied as a child doesn't give carte blanche to bully others, or excuse being rude because someone was once rude to you. <blockquote>
What constitutes "rudeness"? Who decides what it is? Give us your definition of the word "rude". Is all bullying rudeness? Or is your calling others "rude" actually a form of bullying? Do you label anything that displeases you as being "rude" to dominate others?
BTW, my questions are not rhetorical; they are actual and thought provoking. I expect actual answers to them if there is to be a meaningful discussion of this topic.
<blockquote>Nor does it allow one to look for opportunities in non-bullying situations to preemptively defend oneself psychologically/verbally from non-bullies in the mistaken belief that one is superior, smarter, contributive in a helpful way and therefore necessary to the conversation...</blockquote>
That is a run-on sentence. Please make your points more concise and comprehensible for the benefit of everyone reading this.
<blockquote>Someone (Red Dog) needs a good long look in the mirror. </blockquote>
I could say your final comment (parting shot) is "rude" and "bullying".
Think about it. I suggest that you not play that game here. You too might benefit from using the mirror of self-reflection.</blockquote></blockquote>http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=169.0#postid-1168&guid=1168
Re: Being picked on at work because I'm quietTue, 02 Sep 2014 07:17:44 +0000Being bullied as a child doesn't give carte blanche to bully others, or excuse being rude because someone was once rude to you. Nor does it allow one to look for opportunities in non-bullying situations to preemptively defend oneself psychologically/verbally from non-bullies in the mistaken belief that one is superior, smarter, contributive in a helpful way and therefore necessary to the conversation... Someone (Red Dog) needs a good long look in the mirror. http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=334.0#postid-1166&guid=1166
Re: I need to be more energetic, pushier, and more encouraging.Tue, 02 Sep 2014 06:54:34 +0000Tombolo -
TROLL comments aside (Red Dog) I know how you feel Tombolo.
I had teachers for years get in my face looking (insultingly) sympathetic and say "do you understand?" (slowly, as one would to a brain damaged child) simply because of my blank affect, features (down turned mouth, instead of perpetual smile) and easy blushing. As an adult professional over the years I've realized I have very low social potency, and it's not from lack of ability, knowledge/expertise, or effort... it's almost entirely because of my face.
More importantly, it's because others easily give in to judging the cover rather than the book, even after they KNOW how good the book is.
I wrote a bunch, and then deleted it, after re-reading your full text. Here's some different thoughts instead.
You train cognitive skills? Like an occupational or speech therapist? I work in Rehab in allied health section of a hospital and the ONE thing those fields don't need it excitement and distraction. These kids need focus and calm. You sound like the perfect person for that! Is your boss a rah rah cheerleader? Maybe she simply expects you to be like her, in which case SHE is the one who needs to modify her expectations and behavior. You don't NEED to become quickly extroverted, so toss that idea FAST! If you're in a clinical tutoring type field, FAST isn't the point. Why doesn't your boss know this?
If most or all of your students are just like you, personality-wise, then how do you know they're not being perceived BY you just as inaccurately as you're perceived by parents and your bosses? And if these kids are just like you, how do you know their Parents aren't also misunderstanding their kids intro personality, just as you're misunderstood and potentially also misunderstanding the kids? How do you KNOW the kids aren't getting *enough* from you in terms of speed of progress, enthusiasm and feedback? Maybe they are? If they're complaining you're not a big enough cheerleader, then maybe they're NOT just like you, temperamentally.
Why not have the introvert vs extrovert conversation with the kids to see where they really stand? Why not do the same with the parents? If you have hugely extroverted kids who need tons of enthusiasm in your class, why not independently suggest a different teacher for that individual child?
Read "The Highly Sensitive Person."
Also, are you from New England? (lol) Are you TRULY never a cheerleader? You're truly never emotive and enthusiastic when kids do well? I have a hard time believing that, else how could you have ever chosen teaching or graduated and get hired?
Stop your panic, child. There are STRENGTHS to your personality, you just have to play to them, rather than trying to be someone you're not. If YOU are the expert in what you do then you need to put your foot down (it's not THAT hard) with boss and parents and stand your ground. You're the expert, you're doing your job, they need to stop micromanaging. http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=412.0#postid-1165&guid=1165
Re: Introverts NetworkTue, 02 Sep 2014 06:24:24 +0000erm... okay. Thank you for missing the point and not addressing the idea of what I'm trying to discuss. How about instead of picking apart my verbiage and phrasing, you try to consider the idea? Better yet, don't respond again if you have virtually nothing to say, again. Clearly you have transparent disdain for the ideas discussed here. Why not go troll elsewhere? (edited - weirdly, I just read a bunch of your comments to others and they're generally uplifting and helpful...why so rude only to a few of us?)
My POINT is, networking as a concept makes sense but the professionally obligatory (and judgemental - based on many/most of the LinkedIn articles I read about how do to it "right") nature of it (in extro society, which is really what most business is) is contrary to the idea of a quiet revolution. If we want to be ourselves, and adapt the professional world to *both* types of personalities, why aren't we developing a less in-your-face acceptance of networking rather than giving introverts instructions on how to be more extroverted? It defeats the purpose.
Are there ANY more introverted-oriented jobs out there?Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:15:56 +0000(First, I would quickly like to say I am so glad I found out about Susan Cain and her book, and wish I had discovered it much sooner. Finally, there is more of a figure out there who I could relate to a bit more and understands where I am coming from. I could not come up with a more cohesive explanation to what I had been experiencing most of my life until I got to watch Cain's first TED talk in 2012.)
Like many of you, I was an introvert who had to grow up in what were mostly extroverted-oriented environments. Just about everyone, from my peers, to some of my teachers, to even my own parents, thought that there was something wrong with me. All of my ears in grade school, from elementary to high, I was likely seen as one of the outliers, the different ones. Having to be very talkative and outgoing seemed so forced upon me and unnatural. In my high school yearbook, I was even voted as one the "Most Unique", but I'm not sure if that was in a good or bad way.
These carried over to when trying to look for work. It seemed like just about all entry-level jobs, and even odd jobs, were suited for those with a personality similar to a game show host. As of this writing, I have had four different jobs in the past, all of them sales-related, and all of them ended somewhat disastrously.
Another complicating matter in trying to look for work to support oneself while they are in school, or seeking work more to their field of interest, is that more companies would rather take those who are interested in longevity with them. In other words, they want those who will stay with them for career reasons, not someone who will stay only for a few months and leave again.
One more thing: it's hard to stay engaged in the work if you find it dull, boring, unfulfilling, opposite of you, etc. One might be able to "fake" it for a day, maybe even a few days if they're strong enough, but eventually, it's going to show outwardly somehow that you don't like that kind of work and that you don't fit with it.
So what else can you do if there are seemingly no positions out there that fits your temperament?http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=415.0#postid-1163&guid=1163
Gender and SensitivitySat, 30 Aug 2014 07:27:48 +0000A post I wrote recently about being a highly sensitive man. The biggest problem is lack of role models. Check it out.
Don\'t Touch Me, I\'m Norwegian: Migration and TemperamentSat, 30 Aug 2014 07:22:56 +0000Let me just tell you that a small town Vermonter of Norwegian descent stands out in LA like a piece of lutefisk in a tray of rainbow frosted, sprinkled cupcakes.
Re: The Other OneThu, 28 Aug 2014 22:04:12 +0000<blockquote><strong>Quote from TrustNoone on Aug 28, 2014, 12:32pm</strong>
Am I the only one who have feel like to have another personality. Whenever being alone, I'm always talking to myself with two languages. I'm a Vietnamese so one use mother-tougue and the other use English. One is asking, one is answering. It seems the conversation has no ending until I get back to reality.</blockquote>
That which you are describing is entirely normal. You are bilingual, and bicultural. Coping with it is an ever present, challenging situation. Welcome to America. :-)
Apparently and understandably this presents difficulty for you, as it would for virtually anyone - but it has nothing to do with introversion.http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=413.0#postid-1160&guid=1160
The Other OneThu, 28 Aug 2014 12:32:16 +0000Am I the only one who have feel like to have another personality. Whenever being alone, I'm always talking to myself with two languages. I'm a Vietnamese so one use mother-tougue and the other use English. One is asking, one is answering. It seems the conversation has no ending until I get back to reality.http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=412.0#postid-1159&guid=1159
Re: Introverts NetworkThu, 28 Aug 2014 10:26:23 +0000<blockquote>
I'm a bit of an ambivert, but because of my career over the last decade and *where* I've worked, I've been pushed increasingly towards introversion. Even before, though, I disliked and avoided the idea of "networking" as any sort of professional "requirement. </blockquote>
Is it an actual requirement (literally)? Or is this an unstated expectation that you have assumed to be a requirement?
My question is... why must I keep seeing suggestions/ articles/ ideas about how to gird my loins to be a better/engaged networker, how to *make* myself be able to be a networker, when I really don't WANT to? </blockquote>
I don't know. Why must you? Is anyone forcing you or demanding that you read these articles?
Why aren't we creating a new networking paradigm?</blockquote>
You said that you don't enjoy networking. Why are you asking for a new form of it?http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=412.0#postid-1158&guid=1158
Introverts NetworkThu, 28 Aug 2014 09:24:09 +0000(edited after a re-read...I forgot to say "hi all!") I'll fit right in. hahahaha anyway....
I'm a bit of an ambivert, but because of my career over the last decade and *where* I've worked, I've been pushed increasingly towards introversion. Even before, though, I disliked and avoided the idea of "networking" as any sort of professional "requirement."
My question is... why must I keep seeing suggestions/ articles/ ideas about how to gird my loins to be a better/engaged networker, how to *make* myself be able to be a networker, when I really don't WANT to?
Why aren't we creating a new networking paradigm?
I have an odd family and I guess odd friendships. I can not see or talk to immediate family for up to years but the next time I see them it's like there was never any absence. The friends I am closest too are similar. When I get a rare chance to visit, it's like I never left and they seem to react the same way.
Why can't we have networks like this? I may not have the energy to *maintain* (ugh, the WORST thing to have to do) a constant interaction with colleagues, but if someone I worked with years ago contacts me with a professional issue because they know I'm the right person, it never occurs to me NOT to help them if I can. Quid Pro Quo and/or whether they've paid enough attention to me over the years is never a concern. So why does it *have* to be, especially according to all these tiresome articles I read about how to properly network?
Why can't we create a Linked-Ish.com for people who respect and want to affiliate with each other, but don't feel the need for constant upkeep ourselves or willingness to demand it of others? Why are we the ones forced to adapt? I'd love a whole network of people like me, rather than the stress of not being *enough* for the stereotypical professional world... (rant over :) http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/forum/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=411.0#postid-1157&guid=1157
Am I too Sensitive?Sat, 23 Aug 2014 09:26:15 +0000<blockquote>You may call me antisocial for avoiding things that cause me discomfort. You may say I have a disorder. But I say I'm just doing what's normal for me. If you have a problem with that, it just might be you who have the social disorder.</blockquote>